Re: Nazionale Turchia

Mar Set 10, 2024 3:20 pm

Filo ha scritto:

TheChangeling ha scritto:

It's simple. I don't think Giovanni Guidetti is a good human being. If i were a parent i would not want Guidetti coach my daughter.

1. He has abusive relationships with players. It's not just Gizem Örge. Gizem Güreşen said in her interview that she had to transfer to Switzerland not because of volleyball purposes. She had to leave the country because how hurt she was. She needed time away from country to heal. She was another Vakıfbank player

2. What he done to Gizem Örge is simply not understandable. Imagine Santarelli benching De Gennero for no reason on the club, not allowing her to sign with another club for a season. Cutting her from NT roster and in later seasons despite she showed over and over again she is the best libero in the country he still not call her to NT.

3. Guidetti literally i mean literally lobbied for Italy job when he was still coaching Türkiye. He has great relationship with volleynews and ivolleymagazine. He gave interviews about ''i don't have quality outsides on my team'' ''I'm struggling to find to start even 2 players'' He didn't fired because of bad results. Turkish outsides were angry after Guidetti's interviews and they went to Eda Erdem. Erdem had a meeting with Head of Federation who was behind Guidetti. to told him we don't want to play under Guidetti DURING world championship. If you know Erdem she never done anything like this even in club when Fenerbahçe worships her and even built a statue for her (only 5 athlete ever got statue in Yoğurtçular Parkı and all 4 were Football players) after Guidetti left Türkiye and signed Serbia he and his close friend Terzic (who is also known as abusive coach) consistently gave interviews that Guidetti finally has a team where he can win Gold Medals something Guidetti never ever achieved in international competitions. And you know what it didn't worked out.

https://www.milliyet.com.tr/skorer/guidettiden-turkiye-gondermesi-ilk-kez-boyle-bir-takima-liderlik-ediyorum-7013779

During his tenure in Turkish NT 5 different players (Gizem Güreşen, Neriman Özsoy, Tuğba Şenoğlu, Gizem Örge, Kübra Akman) said they had personal problems with Guidetti.

4. What he done to Egonu was just so shit.
Guidetti leaked inside of the facility information to Turkish media to put Egonu under the bus. The create image that Egonu is not a disiplined player and she don't participate training sessions in full capacity. Everyone who knows volleyball knows that if there is insane information comes from Vakıfbank it comes from Guidetti. He controls everything in Vakıfbank. They lost Egonu's trust in less than half a season. and when they did not used Egonu's contract extension in January-February and said if you want to stay in Vakıfbank show us you deserve it. Egonu said fuck it, and signed with Milano. She still gave Vakıfbank a CL title with 40 point final performance over Eczacıbaşı and left the team. The players especially Vakıfbank's three on court leaders Gabi, Zehra and Cansu said they Egonu was an awesome teammate, a friend and they would love her to return but they said they understand the circumtances. There is a reason why Vakıfbank can't sign top Opposites anymore. I would tell the disrespect Haak got from the team but it came from ownership more than Guidetti.

It's just my opinion but in general it reflect Turkish volleyball fans opinions as well. Vakıfbank fans worships him. Everyone is really greatful for all the things he done especially outside of the court for development of womens volleyball in East Türkiye. but in general Guidetti is very much known as being abusive coach in Türkiye

I found this contribution interesting, even though, as Emanuela pointed out, the evaluation of the professional performance of Guidetti should not be automatically be transferred to a moral judgement on his person.

I am puzzled by a few issues, so I would ask @TheChangeling to have the patience to tell us more, if possibile:
1. If I am not wrong you claim that Guidetti was lobbying to have a position in Italy, I guess in the NT. But that implied to leave Turkiye and Vakifbank, since there is this constraint of the Italian federation. It seems odd to me that he really wanted to lose everything he built there, for a temporary position as coach of another NT.
2. You suggest that Guidetti bullied or mistreated Egonu. But what could be the reason for that, since it seems that he strongly wanted her in Istanbul? In particular, the time interval for this change of attitude seems really short, since she arrived in mid October, and after just 3 months there were rumors she wouldnt be confirmed. What could cause such a swift change of attitude...?!

Guidetti already gave confusing interviews when it comes to coaching in club & NT. He critisized Marco Aurélio Motta with coaching in a NT and in a Turkish club the same year then he accepted Turkish NT offer. (while doing it so he was not honest with Dutch NT and especially Robin made fun of him in interviews)

https://www.rtvutrecht.nl/sport/1664921/de-kruijf-haalt-uit-naar-voormalig-bondscoach-guidetti

So was he hoping him working in Turkish league won't be a problem for Italy job? Or he thought Vakıfbank can pay the buyout for him? I really don't know.
Also when it comes to Vakıfbank... maybe the elections was a factor. Maybe Guidetti was really thought leaving Vakıfbank for Italy. He already won everything. and maybe he thought reduced salary will limit his operations?

(during that time there were rumors Vakıf's salary will reduce heavily because of elections. Vakıfbank is a State bank and heavily controlled by E*doğan and AKP. Guidetti is partly part of their political propaganda with playing in advertisements of Vakıfbank. But Guidetti is in control when it comes to volleyball operations and they don't have a say. (i don't think they would allow Ebrar to come back if Guidetti wants her tho) There were elections in that year and in general general belief is opposition would cut Vakıfbank, Ziraat Bankası and Halkbank's salaries heavily if they won the elections. They did not. and Opposition came to support Vakıfbank in Vakıf Arena after the elections as well so i think Whoever in charge will want to keep Guidetti no matter what.

and about Egonu. Nesli, Vakıfbank manager at the time said that they saw Egonu as someone they can not reject. Team was happy with Bella. But Bella wanted to try Italy in her career as well but i don't think she said i don't want to extend my contract. Vakıf and Guidetti saw Egonu is available and even tho Vakıf won 5 cup the previous season they were very much lucky against Fenerbahçe in CL and league finals and Bella vs Vargas was leaning towards Fenerbahçe side more at the time. It was Tuğba Şenoğlu in league finals who become X factor. and CL semi final. Terzic completely outcoached by Guidetti and team was inexperienced with Arina and Ana being 18 year old. So Guidetti and Vakıfbank board was very much in love with the idea that Egonu would make them unstopable. Vakıfbank CEO i believe said right after Vakıfbank won the league title said ''We are bringing Paola Egonu in the best team in the world and she will bring us to next level''. Bella was right behind. and Many of volleyball fans believes that that attitude might be one of the main reasons Vakıfbank can't convince top opposites to come anymore because they saw how Vakıfbank treated Bella and gave up on Egonu after 5 month.

I think biggest reason Guidetti gave up on Egonu so early is he was not impressed with Egonu's training performance and they lost first 2 cups of the season with 2022 Sultanlar Ligi Super Cup and 2022 club world championship to Fenerbahçe and Imoco respectively. Vakıfbank and Guidetti thought they would be unstopable with Egonu and they saw they were performing actually worse. (huge reason was inconsistency of Cansu-Egonu connection but i can not only blame Egonu in here) still i think Paola-Vakıfbank relationship was good for both sides. Paola improved his blocking and floor defense significantly and gave Vakıfbank another CL title in return. I'm sure Guidetti wishes he could be more patient with Paola especially after Boskovic rejected Vakıf again last season.

Mar Set 10, 2024 3:30 pm

@TheChangeling
Thank you!

Mar Set 10, 2024 7:47 pm

@Emanuela @Filo

as I said thechangeling wrote exactly a series of serious insults against guidetti
despite your warnings he continued to write a series of statements without any proof other than his personal dislike towards guidetti
it would take too much time and effort to be able to answer that huge amount of nonsense they listed
i hope no one takes this nonsense seriously
to publish this nonsense without any clarification from the forum administration is not a great advertisement for the forum itself

Mar Set 10, 2024 8:01 pm

pikkipakki ha scritto:@Emanuela @Filo

as I said thechangeling wrote exactly a series of serious insults against guidetti
despite your warnings he continued to write a series of statements without any proof other than his personal dislike towards guidetti
it would take too much time and effort to be able to answer that huge amount of nonsense they listed
i hope no one takes this nonsense seriously
to publish this nonsense without any clarification from the forum administration is not a great advertisement for the forum itself

Scusa, per capire meglio: puoi citare i principali insulti verso Guidetti, scritti dopo i nostri interventi, che hai rilevato?

Mar Set 10, 2024 10:27 pm

Filo ha scritto:

pikkipakki ha scritto:@Emanuela @Filo

as I said thechangeling wrote exactly a series of serious insults against guidetti
despite your warnings he continued to write a series of statements without any proof other than his personal dislike towards guidetti
it would take too much time and effort to be able to answer that huge amount of nonsense they listed
i hope no one takes this nonsense seriously
to publish this nonsense without any clarification from the forum administration is not a great advertisement for the forum itself

Scusa, per capire meglio: puoi citare i principali insulti verso Guidetti, scritti dopo i nostri interventi, che hai rilevato?

Only message I sent after your warning is my last message where I just answered questions. There was no claim towards Guidetti. Please consider this.

Mar Set 10, 2024 11:31 pm

@TheChangeling
I agree with most of your explanations,but there are a couple of issues on which I still have doubts.
I think that Guidetti is well aware that he could become coach of the Italian NT only if 1) the Federation gives up the rule that the coach does not have other commitments, which is not likely to happen anything soon, and 2) if the board, that does not love him, changes and other menagers steps up. Thus in my view it is unlikely that he seriously aimed at that position as you seem to claim.
In view of this it is difficult for me to explain why he had such a harsch attitude to the Turkiye NT in his last year there. During the matches he often looked not confident in the team and their potential, and his timeouts were all but encouraging for the team
As for Egonu, the reasons for hiring her are not obscure, even though it is not clear to me whether Bella's departure was a consequence or rather a cause of Egonu's arrival. But the crucial issue is the conclusion of the affair. Dropping Egonu after 3 months is exceedingly difficult to explain on a rational basis. A top club makes accurate long term planning (the agreement with Egonu dates back to 2021, a year before the 5 titles were won), but firing her after 3 months looks amateurish and makes no sense. Vakifbank was so eager to get rid of her to not consider at all the minor issue of having a decent replacement for her? Thus, either the decision was taken for some obscure or not rational motivation (Egonu unawarely crossed some hidden red line?) or someone made a big mistake.

Mer Set 11, 2024 12:16 am

perché il richiamo in rosso? cosa ho fatto?
rispondo in italiano per evitare di perderci nella traduzione

as I said thechangeling wrote exactly a series of serious insults against guidetti
come avevo detto thechangeling ha scritto una serie di insulti seri contro guidetti

@Filo io non mi riferivo a insulti dopo il richiamo ma a quelli che ha detto prima cioè guidetti isn't a good human being che erano stati scambiati da @Emanuela per traduzioni dal turco imprecise invece come avevo detto erano insulti veri e propri
volevo solo far presente questo

despite your warnings he continued to write a series of statements without any proof other than his personal dislike towards guidetti
nonostante i vostri richiami ha continuato a scrivere affermazioni senza nessuna prova se non la sua personale avversione verso guidetti

le affermazioni di thechangeling non hanno nessuna prova sono solo sue supposizioni
è probabile che thechangeling faccia il tifo per un avversaria del vakifbank
dare credito a tutte le sue personali interpretazioni e farle passare per vere crea solo confusione sulla realtà
non saranno insulti ma comunque le affermazioni di thechangeling infangano la reputazione di guidetti

Mer Set 11, 2024 1:34 am

Il post in rosso non era un richiamo, ma una richiesta di chiarimento.
Avevamo già segnalato a @TheChangeling che il commento iniziale su Guidetti era eccessivamente negativo o poteva essere interpretato come tale. Non mi sembra che ne abbia aggiunti altri. Nei post successivi ha riportato fatti e interpretazioni negative relative all'operato di Guidetti (peraltro già diffuse e di dominio pubblico), ma non valutazioni personali su di lui.

Mer Set 11, 2024 11:35 am

TheChangeling
Ven Set 06, 2024 1:45 pm
I don't think Giovanni is a good human being.

Filo
Dom Set 08, 2024 12:34 am
The statement "I don't think Giovanni is a good human being", is actually too strong, but probably you meant something less offensive.

Emanuela
Lun Set 09, 2024 9:56 am
certo la traduzione letterale in italiano mi ha fatto pensare ad un insulto, decisamente sopra le righe.
Ma ho pensato che fosse una traduzione un po' maldestra e infelice di "non penso che Giovanni sia una persona dalle buone doti umane"

pikkipakki
Lun Set 09, 2024 1:00 pm
what do you mean when you wrote that guidetti isn't a good human being?

TheChangeling
Mar Set 10, 2024 1:50 am
It's simple. I don't think Giovanni Guidetti is a good human being. If i were a parent i would not want Guidetti coach my daughter.

prima avete detto che forse erano traduzioni errate
infine alla mia richiesta di chiarimenti ha ribadito che intendeva proprio l'insulto sopra le righe e too strong che voi avevate già detto di evitare di dire vedi la sequenza sopra

è palese che thechangeling sta diffamando guidetti con interpretazioni fantasiose e fatti distorti
non capisco come si possono trovare interessanti queste dietrologie

Mer Set 11, 2024 12:02 pm

Ma infatti puoi legittimamente ignorarle.
Rispetto alle offese a Guidetti mi pare che @TheChangeling abbia chiarito che ritiene Guidetti una persona da cui stare alla larga dal punto di vista pallavolistico, ma non lo sta accusando di comportamenti illeciti o immorali né di essere una persona malvagia o spregevole.

Mer Set 11, 2024 1:30 pm

@Filo
ok ti sta simpatico thechangeling si è capito
quindi si può diffamare chi ci pare basta ignorare poi

visto che ti piacciono questi argomenti
posso dire che gizem orge ha litigato con guidetti perché voleva un posto garantito in squadra e in nt
dekrujff andava agli allenamenti quando ne aveva voglia e aveva un atteggiamento menefreghista e tende a inventare storie per il gusto di fare battute
egonu pretendeva orari di allenamento personalizzati e decideva lei quando e come seguire i training
aggiungo che sono 3 splendide persone

Mer Set 11, 2024 1:38 pm

Fonti...?

Mer Set 11, 2024 2:34 pm

Laura Dijkema's interview about Guidetti: Laura Dijkema: In 2016, my mother was struggling with Alzheimer's and we were in Thailand for the World Grand Prix. Before the 3rd place match, Guidetti came to me and said "I don't **** care about your private life, you are playing badly and we need you to play well for the medal"I tried not to cry, but I couldn't stand it in the elevator. What really pissed me off was that it motivated me and I played very well the next day. We won the medal. When I thought about it later, I was angry that it motivated me. Guidetti never asked me how I felt about it."

I don't know Dutch but It's Volleyball Journalist who lives in Netherlands Fırat Topal's translation.
This is the episode.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7ukKSVQdVnx501alfsKI8U?si=pPD_zfGWQX-66RPcAokyzg

Gizem Örge's Socrates interview: https://socratesdergi.com/yazi/kesif-cagi

Gizem Güreşen's interview: https://ajansspor.com/haber/galatasaray-kaptanindan-milli-takim-hocasina-sikintilarim-vardi-618434#google_vignette

Guidetti's interview confirming his lack of trust in Turkish NT's chances winning gold medal. (We won 2 of them in very next summer Smile

) : https://x.com/4141sport/status/1696566243464016333

Guidetti's interview to Corriere dello Sport about his lack of trust to Turkish Outsides https://x.com/4141sport/status/1548228306289303555

1. Only people i know from this forum are people i met and regularly talk in Volleyball Source's discord channel. I don't think any of them follow Turkish volleyball or womens volleyball in general
2. Like moderators said i didn't said anything personal to Guidetti after my comments found offensive towards him. and i only answered questions asked to me.
3. I already shared sources i found before. Here are the other sources that i mentioned if you want me to find any specific source on specific matter please ask me and give me couple of days because as you can imagine some of the them requires background search, finding sources not in my native language, asking sources specially can i use/refer it etc. etc.
4. I don't want to offend anyone. Like i said i just wouldn't trust Guidetti coaching my daughter from coaching point of view. He done great things for my country and i'm grateful for that.

Mer Set 11, 2024 3:03 pm

@Filo
le stesse di thechangeling ma con una interpretazione guidetti oriented invece di quelle players oriented che sanno tanto di rivalsa
tendo a non credere a queste lamentele a scoppio ritardato

@TheChangeling
aspetto con ansia rivelazioni di abusi di guidetti su gabi

Mer Set 11, 2024 3:12 pm

pikkipakki ha scritto:@Filo
le stesse di thechangeling ma con una interpretazione guidetti oriented invece di quelle players oriented che sanno tanto di rivalsa
tendo a non credere a queste lamentele a scoppio ritardato

@TheChangeling
aspetto con ansia rivelazioni di abusi di guidetti su gabi

Ok, chiaramente come spesso succede la verità non è bianconera (tranne che per gli juventini ma siamo in un forum di volley), e su alcune cose è difficile raggiungere conclusioni inoppugnabili. Vi ringrazio però per i contributi e i toni positivi.

Mer Set 11, 2024 7:09 pm

pikkipakki ha scritto:@Filo
le stesse di thechangeling ma con una interpretazione guidetti oriented invece di quelle players oriented che sanno tanto di rivalsa
tendo a non credere a queste lamentele a scoppio ritardato

@TheChangeling
aspetto con ansia rivelazioni di abusi di guidetti su gabi

Nah, Gabi and Guidetti was like a match made in heaven. And both sides said it was emotional saying goodbye, both sides are thankful for each other. I just think it was Gabi trying to work with Santarelli and experiencing Italy before retiring.

Mer Set 11, 2024 7:24 pm

@TheChangeling

how strange
if a person is a bad coach he should be with everyone
the fact that gabi a serious and dedicated professional appreciated guidetti as a person and coach explains many things about those who had a bad time with guidetti

Mer Set 11, 2024 8:55 pm

pikkipakki ha scritto:@TheChangeling

how strange
if a person is a bad coach he should be with everyone
the fact that gabi a serious and dedicated professional appreciated guidetti as a person and coach explains many things about those who had a bad time with guidetti

I disagree. Individuals experience different things. A Coach can make mistakes and later become a better person, a player can make mistakes and later become a better player.
In the end a coaches job is not making things personal. Getting best out of every players. Blocking best Turkish libero's path to NT looks like personal to me. Mazzanti used Degennaro's age as a excuse right? What was Guidetti's excuse to not call Gizem to NT? He never explained it to us nor Gizem herself.

I think Hande Baladın explained it the best
"We had a stormy relationship with Guidetti. Guidetti is an incredibly difficult character. He always wants the best. I am an player who wants the best, too, so sometimes there were moments when we clashed a lot and fought.
"I don't remember a season in which I didn't cry, have depression and nervous breakdowns.
"I believe he was doing these things to bring us to better versions of ourselves."
There was a need for new blood, after all those years and all those seasons trust and faith in each other was damaged.

Santarelli
"When I first arrived in the national team, she needed to recover, especially. She needed to talk to me about her situation.

Hande:
"I was hesitant to express my feelings and problems with Dani because we had just met him, but now it's been 1 day, 2 days, 3 days. After the last match, I said, no matter how Dani perceives it, I'm going to talk to him.
Santarelli;
"He was a different player during VNL time, but I understood and talked to her first."

Hande: "I said, Dani, I feel like this, I'm in such a bad shape mentally. Of course, I started to cry then. Her eyes also filled with tears. Don't cry, otherwise I'll cry too. He told me."
Santarelli: "I wanted to wait for her, because I wanted her to show what she did not only to me, but also to the national team, to the other players, to the fans, and also to herself
"He was really supportive of me and said, 'You're not the first athlete to experience this and you won't be the last.' He said, 'It's very normal, I've been thinking about how I can help you.'
We talked and agreed, and he gave me some time. "Since it was no longer obvious that I would not enter the field, the only thing I could do was support my teammates as much as possible."

Hande did not just talks about things happened with Guidetti in here, (they seen happily talking with each other in Ayça Aykaç's wedding last summer. and Guidetti alongside Santarelli and Ferhat Akbaş joined Hande's Red Bull documentary as well both were very much honest in documentary. )
Hande was also dealing with pressure from toxic fans, she was assaulted online by a fan who treated her to burn her face with acid. and she underperformed in 2022 summer. It's worth noting Guidetti was not entirely at fault. It was just wrong mistake at wrong time. His relationship with Hande was just in a bad shape in 2022 summer especially after Corriere interview he gave when he complained about outsides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpXE1XVBJNo
https://www.redbull.com/tr-tr/films/baladin

Hande was perhaps our second most consistent player this summer after Vargas. It's amazing to watch her growth and Santarelli was big part of that.

Gio Set 12, 2024 12:04 am

pikkipakki ha scritto:@TheChangeling

how strange
if a person is a bad coach he should be with everyone
the fact that gabi a serious and dedicated professional appreciated guidetti as a person and coach explains many things about those who had a bad time with guidetti

I don't agree with this.
We are humans and, as it happens in real life, there are people more connected together than other ones.
Generally speaking, of course it is desiderable that a coach, training a group of athletes, would be able to build an empathic relationship with the majority of them, not only with a few. If this does not happen, or it happens only for a minority of the team, reasons could be: different mindsets, methods or even sportive culture. Usually when a coach of a NT is selected, the philosophy and the methods behind him are well known in advance. And such philosophy and methods should match with human capital of majority of the available athletes (in NT you cannot buy other players if the existing are not in line with the coach...)
If this is not happening there is not only one responsible (the coach), there is the full system behind him who is failing, and even the athletes are not exempt from their portion of responsibility.

Gio Set 12, 2024 12:17 am

@TheChangeling

but at this point I ask you is it possible that in all of great turkyie you didn't have a better coach than the deplorable guidetti?

Mazzanti used Degennaro's age as a excuse right?
no he used no excuse

you had guidetti we had mazzanti different person different method same huge mess

Ven Set 13, 2024 3:01 pm

pikkipakki ha scritto:@TheChangeling

but at this point I ask you is it possible that in all of great turkyie you didn't have a better coach than the deplorable guidetti?

Mazzanti used Degennaro's age as a excuse right?
no he used no excuse

you had guidetti we had mazzanti different person different method same huge mess

There is a saying in Türkiye.
Turks hates their own child the most.
This might be a factor to not develop Turkish coaches. Ofcourse he haven't found our next Cengiz Göllü (our legendary coach) but I think Ferhat Akbaṣ quite improved himself over the years. But still we are nowhere close to Italy when it comes to developing coaches.

Beṣiktaṣ's Recep Vatansever and Zeren II's Gökhan Durmaz are very underrated coaches as well.

Ven Set 27, 2024 1:32 am

TheChangeling ha scritto:Also handling fame is another discussion I haven't mentioned. Santarelli literally starred two different TV ad Bosch and Kigili.

https://youtu.be/whVYdoq3AkQ?si=U7882oujrER2hDMG

It's so wild to me imagining Coaches like Velasco, Karpol, Bernandinho, Ze, Ping ever does something like this. How can a coach tell to his players you should not let fame, advertisement and money go into your head and should give all your focus to volleyball when even he himself spend days shooting 2 different advertisement for Bosch and 1 advertisement for Kigili?

I guess it's today's normal and I might be old head when it comes to stuff like that but it's weird to me. It's like Santarelli captivated by fame in Türkiye when people were literally worshipping him in 2023 Summer.

I agree with you on this one. Maybe I'm an old nag, but I do not like this kind of approach/mentality. That's just my personal opinion, and I might be completely wrong here.

However, I do strongly believe that there is such thing as overexposure. Any NT coach should be very careful how they treat this. I would argue even star players should be careful, but more so a figure such as the coach of a NT. More so when you are the coach of a team with great ambitions, and a "hot" place when it comes to the fans/supporters of big volley nations.

Santarelli is young and ambitious. Money also does help, I suppose, so it's a temptation. The ads, the tik-tok and YT "cute" videos etc. (I've seen a lot of them from Turkiye,) might help create a certain atmosphere and support behind the NT. But at the first failure of reaching the main objective, that overexposure will come back to bite you, regardless of whether or not that objective was realistic.

This time around he will survive because he has some alibis (see injuries.) But there will not be a 3rd time. Me think. This is not Guidetti's era Turkiye. This is Vargas era, and the stakes have been raised exponentially.

Ven Set 27, 2024 1:58 am

Re-speaking the language of the country. As an immigrant myself, I would absolutely refuse to give the citizenship or nationality to anyone who does not bother to learn the language of that country. If I'm not mistaken there are laws everywhere about it actually. I don't know about Turkiye, but there is in Italy.

However, I've seen some who barely spoke Italian, when I had the exam myself, who nevertheless passed it. So yeah...I would imagine they wouldn't care much when it comes about naturalising high level athletes.

Sab Set 28, 2024 10:58 pm

Nym ha scritto:Re-speaking the language of the country. As an immigrant myself, I would absolutely refuse to give the citizenship or nationality to anyone who does not bother to learn the language of that country. If I'm not mistaken there are laws everywhere about it actually. I don't know about Turkiye, but there is in Italy.

However, I've seen some who barely spoke Italian, when I had the exam myself, who nevertheless passed it. So yeah...I would imagine they wouldn't care much when it comes about naturalising high level athletes.

Can't agree more. E*doğan uses Syrian refugees as a weapon in both inside and outside politics for years. He gives them citizenship in order to gain voters in his favor back. Little did he knew. His votes are keep getting lower and lower despite refugee votes.

Unlike most of the other countries. Right wing benefits from refugee politics more in Türkiye than left wing.

Dom Set 29, 2024 12:10 am

TheChangeling ha scritto:

Nym ha scritto:Re-speaking the language of the country. As an immigrant myself, I would absolutely refuse to give the citizenship or nationality to anyone who does not bother to learn the language of that country. If I'm not mistaken there are laws everywhere about it actually. I don't know about Turkiye, but there is in Italy.

However, I've seen some who barely spoke Italian, when I had the exam myself, who nevertheless passed it. So yeah...I would imagine they wouldn't care much when it comes about naturalising high level athletes.

Can't agree more. E*doğan uses Syrian refugees as a weapon in both inside and outside politics for years. He gives them citizenship in order to gain voters in his favor back. Little did he knew. His votes are keep getting lower and lower despite refugee votes.

Unlike most of the other countries. Right wing benefits from refugee politics more in Türkiye than left wing.

I fully agree with your comments, and I really hope that our Turkish brothers can have the political leaders they deserve, as Turkiye is such a promising and rising country, but let us go back to volley...!