Nazionale Turchia

Mer Apr 17, 2024 5:40 pm

Atlete convocate da Santarelli per la Nazionale Turca

Alzatrici: Cansu Özbay, Elif Şahin, Sıla Çalışkan, Dilay Özdemir
Opposti: Melissa Vargas, Alexia Karutasu, Tutku Burcu Yüzgenç, Defne Başyolcu
Schiacciatrici: Hande Baladın, Ebrar Karakurt, İlkin Aydın, Meliha Diken, Derya Cebecioğlu, Saliha Şahin, Tuğba İvegin, Bianka İlayda Mumcular, İdil Naz Başcan
Centrali: Eda Erdem Dündar, Zehra Güneş, Aslı Kalaç, Beyza Arıcı, Kübra Akman, Yasemin Güveli, Bahar Akbay, Bengisu Aydın, Deniz Uyanık
Liberi: Simge Aköz, Gizem Örge, Ayça Aykaç Altıntaş, Melis Yılmaz

Mer Apr 17, 2024 6:11 pm

Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Mer Apr 17, 2024 6:20 pm

Marco-B ha scritto:Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Anche io avevo capito cosí ma magari c'é qualche cavillo tecnico che non conosco o un fattore temporale per il quale se una atleta viene naturalizzata oggi tra un anno puó giocare assieme a un'altra?

Non so, sto sparando.

Mer Apr 17, 2024 7:58 pm

Link per il sito ufficiale VNL

Gio Apr 18, 2024 12:26 pm

L.Esperto ha scritto:

Marco-B ha scritto:Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Anche io avevo capito cosí ma magari c'é qualche cavillo tecnico che non conosco o un fattore temporale per il quale se una atleta viene naturalizzata oggi tra un anno puó giocare assieme a un'altra?

Non so, sto sparando.

Meliha doesn't count as foreigner. Türkiye in both mens and womens had many Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian, Romanian, Irani players in their academy. Meliha developed in our academy as well. (also she is half Turkish her surname is literally Daughter of Ismail)

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 3:02 pm

te pareva, anche qui sono arrivati i turchi a difendere le loro naturalizzazioni

Gio Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm

TheChangeling ha scritto:

L.Esperto ha scritto:

Marco-B ha scritto:Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Anche io avevo capito cosí ma magari c'é qualche cavillo tecnico che non conosco o un fattore temporale per il quale se una atleta viene naturalizzata oggi tra un anno puó giocare assieme a un'altra?

Non so, sto sparando.

Meliha doesn't count as foreigner. Türkiye in both mens and womens had many Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian, Romanian, Irani players in their academy. Meliha developed in our academy as well. (also she is half Turkish her surname is literally Daughter of Ismail)

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

that's the proof you can't win using only real Turkish players.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 3:18 pm

TheChangeling ha scritto:[quote=

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

i dont understand this matter of being counted as Turkish or not. You're Turkish if you are born in Turkeye, no? otherwise you should go through the whole procedure naturalised athletes are supposed to go through.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 3:37 pm

Alcuni turchi ragionano come se fossero ancora ai tempi dell'Impero Ottomano, per cui delle leggi internazionali sportive se ne fanno un baffo, pensando che quel che conta è cosa intendono loro per straniero o no. The Changeling è uno di questi.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:09 pm

18x9 ha scritto:

TheChangeling ha scritto:

L.Esperto ha scritto:

Marco-B ha scritto:Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Anche io avevo capito cosí ma magari c'é qualche cavillo tecnico che non conosco o un fattore temporale per il quale se una atleta viene naturalizzata oggi tra un anno puó giocare assieme a un'altra?

Non so, sto sparando.

Meliha doesn't count as foreigner. Türkiye in both mens and womens had many Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian, Romanian, Irani players in their academy. Meliha developed in our academy as well. (also she is half Turkish her surname is literally Daughter of Ismail)

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

that's the proof you can't win using only real Turkish players.

Was Ivan, Paola, Juantorena are 100% Italian by birth? No. Does Ivan and Paola has significant history with Italy, italian culture and got their education/spent time in Italian Volleyball Academy in Italy? Yes.

Türkiye has wide history with Balkan countries. For centuries Turkish people live among local people across all Balkans. And some people especially in Bulgaria never really returned. It's not just Balkans, many Bosnian origined players were already Turks who came to Balkan region after Ottomans invasion and later had marriages with locals. (Eda Erdem, Zehra Güneş their families returned to Türkiye after WW1) Northern Iran is actually called South Azerbaijan in Iran. (like North Greece is called South Macedonia) and those people speak Turkish in their daily life basis. Saadat, Sharifi, Marouf are all from that region and speak perfect Turkish.

also about Lagumdzija brothers. We didn't recuited them by ourselves. Ekrem Lagumdzija runs Vakıfbank's volleyball academy in Bosnia. (Ekrem Lagumdzija is former Yugoslavian NT player and when Balkan Wars started he escaped to Türkiye and played pro volleyball in here. He wanted his sons to have their development with much more qualified Türkiye. Serbia was also interested but he chose us. It's not like we're buying players. Because we have best academies in all Balkans a lot of prospects even from Serbia are coming here. Italy has same situation with Libya and Albania as well.

Like countries all over the world getting Cuban players. Leon, Leal, Juantorena etc. because of Cuban regime and economical struggles those players wanted to leave Cuba. Bosnia is in pretty same position in European sports. Serbia & Türkiye in pretty much every sport (even Tijana Boskovic is huge example. Turkish scouts found her before Serbians) competes for Bosnian athletes.

I think what matters is. Players should be from your development programme and should played in your under categories championships.Lagumdzija brothers, Matic, Meliha, Alexia. all did. They are Turkish players who has Bosnian origin. I don't think they have any difference than Ivan Zaytsev or Antropova. but Vargas's situation is completely different. and belongs to another discussion which i think we are in same side about.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:09 pm

Marco-B ha scritto:Alcuni turchi ragionano come se fossero ancora ai tempi dell'Impero Ottomano, per cui delle leggi internazionali sportive se ne fanno un baffo, pensando che quel che conta è cosa intendono loro per straniero o no. The Changeling è uno di questi.

malcelato panturchismo

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:14 pm

TheChangeling ha scritto:

18x9 ha scritto:

TheChangeling ha scritto:

L.Esperto ha scritto:

Marco-B ha scritto:Io vedo tre turchizzate: Vargas, Diken, Karutasu.
Non era 2 il limite?

Anche io avevo capito cosí ma magari c'é qualche cavillo tecnico che non conosco o un fattore temporale per il quale se una atleta viene naturalizzata oggi tra un anno puó giocare assieme a un'altra?

Non so, sto sparando.

Meliha doesn't count as foreigner. Türkiye in both mens and womens had many Bosnian, Croatian and Albanian, Romanian, Irani players in their academy. Meliha developed in our academy as well. (also she is half Turkish her surname is literally Daughter of Ismail)

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

that's the proof you can't win using only real Turkish players.

Was Ivan, Paola, Juantorena are 100% Italian by birth? No. Does Ivan and Paola has significant history with Italy, italian culture and got their education/spent time in Italian Volleyball Academy in Italy? Yes.

Türkiye has wide history with Balkan countries. For centuries Turkish people live among local people across all Balkans. And some people especially in Bulgaria never really returned. It's not just Balkans, many Bosnian origined players were already Turks who came to Balkan region after Ottomans invasion and later had marriages with locals. (Eda Erdem, Zehra Güneş their families returned to Türkiye after WW1) Northern Iran is actually called South Azerbaijan in Iran. (like North Greece is called South Macedonia) and those people speak Turkish in their daily life basis. Saadat, Sharifi, Marouf are all from that region and speak perfect Turkish.

also about Lagumdzija brothers. We didn't recuited them by ourselves. Ekrem Lagumdzija runs Vakıfbank's volleyball academy in Bosnia. (Ekrem Lagumdzija is former Yugoslavian NT player and when Balkan Wars started he escaped to Türkiye and played pro volleyball in here. He wanted his sons to have their development with much more qualified Türkiye. Serbia was also interested but he chose us. It's not like we're buying players. Because we have best academies in all Balkans a lot of prospects even from Serbia are coming here. Italy has same situation with Libya and Albania as well.

Like countries all over the world getting Cuban players. Leon, Leal, Juantorena etc. because of Cuban regime and economical struggles those players wanted to leave Cuba. Bosnia is in pretty same position in European sports. Serbia & Türkiye in pretty much every sport (even Tijana Boskovic is huge example. Turkish scouts found her before Serbians) competes for Bosnian athletes.

I think what matters is. Players should be from your development programme and should played in your under categories championships.Lagumdzija brothers, Matic, Meliha, Alexia. all did. They are Turkish players who has Bosnian origin. I don't think they have any difference than Ivan Zaytsev or Antropova. but Vargas's situation is completely different. and belongs to another discussion which i think we are in same side about.

Egonu and Zaytseve are 100% Italian. Antropova and Juantorena are naturalized, just like Varagas, Carutasu, Meliah, Matic, and the Lagumdzija brothers.
End of the story, we have had enough of your panturkish crap.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:15 pm

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:19 pm

Convocate Nazionale USA

OPP: Drews , Cuttino, Thompson, Kipp, Mims
S: Poulter, Carlini, Gray , Hancock, Evans
OH: Larson, Frantti, Bajema, Plummer, M. Skinner, A. Skinner, Kelsey, Lanier, Wilhite
MB: Butler, Hall, Washington, Rettke, Chiaka, O'Neal, Haneline
L: Wong-Orantes, White, Hentz, Fleck

Convocate Nazionale Serba

S: Miljevic - Perovic - Mirkovic - Rankovic
OPP: Bjelica - Taubner - Bukilic - Vidacic - Zelenovic
OH: Lazovic - Uzelac - Milenkovic - Mateska - Cvetkovic - Tica - Mijatovic - İvanovic - Lozo
MB: Cikuc - Sucurovic - Kirov - Malesevic - Kurtagic - Osmajic
L: Gocanin - Medved - Popovic - Jegdic - Pusic - Pakic

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:22 pm

COMUNICAZIONE DI SERVIZIO

Per cortesia qando quotate i posts altrui per commentare cercate di non quotare un intero discorso che include commenti, risposte, altre risposte ecc che finiscono per occupare metá pagina del forum. La fruizione di quest'ultimo da parte degli utenti ne risulta penalizzata.

Grazie.

P.S. Per quanto mi riguarda TheChangeling al momento non ha violato nessuna delle regole di utilizzo del forum - che invito TUTTI a leggere - per cui non c'é nessuna ragione per bannarlo/a.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:31 pm

TheChangeling ha scritto:
Was Ivan, Paola, Juantorena are 100% Italian by birth? No.

Bad answer.
Paola Egonu was born in Padova
Ivan Zaytsev was born in Perugia

They are 100% Italians by law without the need of any marriage or others workarounds.
Please keep this place as nice as we would like to be. Attacking alleged Italian naturalisations to justify Turkish ones is not the correct way for a constructive dialog.
We don't need the history of Turkey to be sure that the two cases (Italy vs Turkey) are even not comparable.
But thank you for your opinion.

Thanks

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:39 pm

Emanuela ha scritto:

TheChangeling ha scritto:
Was Ivan, Paola, Juantorena are 100% Italian by birth? No.

Bad answer.
Paola Egonu was born in Padova
Ivan Zaytsev was born in Perugia

They are 100% Italians by law without the need of any marriage or others workarounds.
Please keep this place as nice as we would like to be. Attacking alleged Italian naturalisations to justify Turkish ones is not the correct way for a constructive dialog.
We don't need the history of Turkey to be sure that the two cases (Italy vs Turkey) are even not comparable.
But thank you for your opinion.

Thanks

Certo, Grazie anche a te. I actually understand Italian atleast 70% of the discussions i just don't find myself comfortable enough to write in Italian yet and i'm using this forum to improve my italian. I didn't mean any PanTurkic sh*t. I just want to highlight that those people were Turkish academy products. mi dispiace molto
per discussione.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:53 pm

L.Esperto ha scritto:Convocate Nazionale USA

OPP: Drews , Cuttino, Thompson, Kipp, Mims
S: Poulter, Carlini, Gray , Hancock, Evans
OH: Larson, Frantti, Bajema, Plummer, M. Skinner, A. Skinner, Kelsey, Lanier, Wilhite
MB: Butler, Hall, Washington, Rettke, Chiaka, O'Neal, Haneline
L: Wong-Orantes, White, Hentz, Fleck

Ho visto che alcuni siti riportano questa lista, ma in realtà non c'è nessuna notizia ufficiale: il sito web di USA VOLLEYBALL non riporta la notizia...

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:54 pm

babs ha scritto:
i dont understand this matter of being counted as Turkish or not. You're Turkish if you are born in Turkeye, no? otherwise you should go through the whole procedure naturalised athletes are supposed to go through.

Comunque non è proprio così, altrimenti anche si potrebbe aprire una discussione anche su Fahr.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:55 pm

Sentenza69 ha scritto:

L.Esperto ha scritto:Convocate Nazionale USA

OPP: Drews , Cuttino, Thompson, Kipp, Mims
S: Poulter, Carlini, Gray , Hancock, Evans
OH: Larson, Frantti, Bajema, Plummer, M. Skinner, A. Skinner, Kelsey, Lanier, Wilhite
MB: Butler, Hall, Washington, Rettke, Chiaka, O'Neal, Haneline
L: Wong-Orantes, White, Hentz, Fleck

Ho visto che alcuni siti riportano questa lista, ma in realtà non c'è nessuna notizia ufficiale: il sito web di USA VOLLEYBALL non riporta la notizia...

https://en.volleyballworld.com/volleyball/competitions/volleyball-nations-league/teams/women/6614/players/

Gio Apr 18, 2024 4:56 pm

Sentenza69 ha scritto:Ho visto che alcuni siti riportano questa lista, ma in realtà non c'è nessuna notizia ufficiale: il sito web di USA VOLLEYBALL non riporta la notizia...

È su Volleyball World.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 5:00 pm

babs ha scritto:

TheChangeling ha scritto:[quote=

Caratasu was supposed to be count Turkish as well. Since she came in Vakıf academy in age of 13-14 (just like Lagumdzija brothers for comperation) but Romanian volleyball federation threatened her to not giving her access to get Turkish passport if she doesn't play for them in one summer. and Alexia had to play for Romania in order to get Turkish passport. TVF (Turkish volleyball federation) issued this to FIVB and still in talks them to count Alexia fully as Turkish. But right now. Türkiye is not allowed to call Vargas and Alexia in same VNL week.

i dont understand this matter of being counted as Turkish or not. You're Turkish if you are born in Turkeye, no? otherwise you should go through the whole procedure naturalised athletes are supposed to go through.

Honestly i'm not sure about the details. Especially about refugees. Many refuges has work and accommodation permit but they don't have Turkish visa until certain time period Thats why i got confused about italy's laws as well because i assumed that time period existed in Italy as well.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 5:34 pm

I think It Is not a matter of singular country laws, but a matter of Federation normative - FIVB and Olympic Games Comitee - in order to make the rules for all participating countries to tournaments apply

Gio Apr 18, 2024 5:59 pm

TheChangeling ha scritto:

Certo, Grazie anche a te. I actually understand Italian atleast 70% of the discussions i just don't find myself comfortable enough to write in Italian yet and i'm using this forum to improve my italian. I didn't mean any PanTurkic sh*t. I just want to highlight that those people were Turkish academy products. mi dispiace molto
per discussione.

Ciao TheChangeling, grazie per scrivere su questo forum. Personalmente, come molti altri, sono contento di avere contributi internazionali. A volte i commenti dei tifosi turchi sono un po' faziosi e per questo può succedere che alcuni (anche io per esempio) siano prevenuti. Succede anche ai tifosi italiani di essere faziosi, magari in modi più ironici.
Due cose : è vero, sia Italia che Turchia hanno fatto naturalizzazioni. Per esempio, Antropova e Vargas. Penso che tu abbia ragione, la situazione non è molto diversa. La legge lo permette, conveniva, è stato fatto. Può essere una pratica simpatica o no ma non c'è bisogno di giustificarla con motivi storici o geopolitici. Si può fare, punto e basta.
Seconda cosa : per favore non scrivere più che Egonu o Zaytsev sono italiani solo in parte. Capisco che nella cultura turca la nazionalità abbia connotazioni diverse da quella italiana, ma per noi Egonu e Zaytsev sono italiani e basta. Quindi, ti sono grato se puoi rispettare la nostra posizione ed evitare di scrivere che loro, o altri come loro, sono qualcosa di diverso da normali italiani.

Gio Apr 18, 2024 6:18 pm

Io comunque Antropova la paragonerei più a Carutasu che non a Vargas. Se proprio vogliamo, Vargas mi sembra più paragonabile a Juantorena oppure a Tai Aguero.

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